Goku then gets stronger and gets SSJB ontop of that, which is bare minimum 2-3x stronger than SSJG. Unless he’s undoubtedly 100% serious then his showings should be taken with a grain of salt because he never goes all out. That's the thing that you don't understand. Golden Frieza vs Android 17 and Ultimate Gohan… It didn't seem to me that Goku was going all out in any of his forms. Goku Black would kick Hit's ass 5 ways to Sunday. goku but not in a stomp as in WTF happen and how gohan was able to even fight with blue goku or even survive his KK move is beyond me so why will this shit be different??? » Base Gogeta (fusions reborn) vs Ultimate Gohan. Yeah the scaling is all over the place in DBS, even moreso than DBZ was. If anything base Gohan was doing a bit better. Kamehameha >>>> punch. YOU, on the other hand, are some strange Gohan wanker and will wank or lowball anyone around him if it makes Gohan look good. This new Mystic Gohan could hold his own against SSB Goku and Golden Frieza. I honestly feel this wouldn't be an issue if Toei didn't do all that universal shit with Beerus in the DBS version of Beerus vs Goku and in the BOG movie, because now whenever someone sees a character fight Goku they immediately think "no way this character is universal" even though Goku himself isn't universal and something akin to what happened during his fight with Beerus, never occurred again. They were also worrying if frieza had killed Toppo when he dropped the beam struggle, not 17. Plus we have base Goku equal to the copy Vegeta that stomped ssj3 Gotenks, base Goku fighting final form Frieza who in his first form one shot killed Piccolo, ect. @erkan12: Piccolo is only old ssj2 tier. Vegito would win. If he was, Goku wouldn't need to use Kaioken SSB to put down Gohan. I agree, but his base still seems Buu tier considering he was able to fight fit Buu in his base. 17's beam were never causing any effect on Toppo whatsoever, and Toppo, and even U7 on the bleachers clearly stated as such (Android 18 and Piccolo specifically) that they were never hurting Toppo, but were used infinitely to stall the 5 minutes remaining. That's why he asked him to use it before he beats him up. Posted by. I'm just going to assume you had no answer to something that tore your argument inside out. Just wow. Gohan is definately SSB tier, but he's not the level of a Full power SSB imo. Tbh the writers just crapped all over Piccolo even having him get stomped by Tagoma and doing pretty poorly in the ToP. That was 17, all freiza did was cause him to lose the beam struggle. Lol, YOU were the one trying to desperately lowball Golden Frieza with this nonsensical sentence: You don't deserve an in-depth answer after this nonsense, especially when I've always said to you that Frieza was actually god tier... On top of that, you keep ignoring MY Toppo and Jimeze points, yet you have the audacity to say I'm side stepping? Goku could handle Gohan in SSJ2. Also, if you can, read my recent replies on the matter about the purpose of Gohan vs Goku's episode. Oh and your not remembering the episode correctly. I don’t give Gohan doing well against Blue that much credit because: 1) it makes no sense, like, beyond stupid for gohan to match that level of power, but more importantly... 2) Goku and Vegeta hold back against literally everyone even if it results in them getting beat up. Gohan is definitely SSB level. And since then he has become a lot stronger. U6 Namekians being above him, and Gohan being above them just proves Gohan is over Z ssj3 tier which his mystic form always was. I also like how you completely side stepped away from the Gohan / Frieza vs Jimeze point which alone completely debunks your claims. @jashro44: So are we saying that Ultimate Gohan would be an actually challenge for Golden Frieza if they fought for real? Which is patently ridiculous. Gohan sensed Frieza wasn't serious and he played along. F.x: Supressed Beerus godstomps Ultimate Gohan but is matched by 80% SSJG Goku. But still Ultimate Gohan is stronger than SSJ3 Goku.BardockGoku 08:19, October 22, 2011 (UTC) if he was, how come goku didnt wish him to the planet of the kais? I think depending on how you want to look at things either Gohan is far above Buuhan or DBS character just aren't as powerful as people think. I don't think Piccolo got crapped on in the ToP. Gohan reunlocks his Ultimate form and can suddenly hold his own against SSJB Goku.... @hittheassasin: That's the point. But the fights Goku and Gohan have had thus far tell a different story to the narrator statements. All we saw was Gohan slightly staggering SSB which honestly is a farcry from simply going blow to blow with SSB Goku constantly. Base Gogeta (fusions reborn) vs Ultimate Gohan. Hit gave Jiren some bother. Frieza is pretty arrogant. Piccolo stated DBS Gohan until recently was weaker than Buu Saga Gohan lmao. Gohan hasn't done anything in a real dire situation to suggest he's anywhere near the level to fight the way Goku fought Beerus. [Question] Is Ultimate Gohan able to be stronger than SSB Goku or Vegeta? Plus in regards to the frieza fight the whole thing was an act. Against Gohan, who is roughly on SSB level you say, after he saw his full power he decided to use SSJ2 and gave Gohan a hard time (kicked his ass for the most part). 17 did not ask Goku to turn blue, Goku did it because 17 was strong. In terms of character respect for U7 this arc I think his is how it goes, 1. I mean, he was never seen being legit hurt during any of those battles. It's a cheat code that lets you move into a crazy high power level without bleeding off ki or having to undergo insane body alteration like imperfect SS2 or SS3. Actually, you don't have to answer that and I'll let you know why later. @omriamar: Speculating? Just because he's in a form doesn't mean he can't pull his punches. So I don't think being one shotted is really a bad showing for Gohan. Yes he wasn't holding back. Gohan specifically said "see my full strength". So? Gohan had problems with a guy from U10 as well, and SSG Goku almost definitely could of beaten that guy. Which prompts goku to use kk. Confirmed. If my first sentence was true, every Universe 7 warrior should be able to win against SSG Goku. SSB Goku is far stronger than SSG Goku. Gohan did train with Piccolo so maybe he got a huge boost some how in that short time. Why is this important? Given SSB Goku equals True Golden Frieza. Ultimate Gohan vs SSR Future Trunks Power Levels - Dragon Ball Super - Duration: 1:46. He also believed he would beat Goku which he didn't and he also said he could kill Vegeta as well which is debatable. Seriously, do you not watch Dragon Ball? Piccolo, I mentioned why he was this low, 9. Either way, Golden Frieza (and anyone who is equal or around SSB Goku's strength) should be above Ultimate Gohan's level, since I doubt Toriyama and the writers ever had any intention to make Gohan surpass SSB at all. It's clearly not as powerful as people hype it up to be imo. 18 got a lot of eliminations and lasted a long time, 7. For Dragon Ball Z: Ultimate Tenkaichi on the PlayStation 3, a GameFAQs message board topic titled "Ultimate Gohan vs Base Vegito . So with all that said how does Mystic Gohan stack with SSB Goku in DBS? In fact, if you watch SSB only gets one hit on Gohan to Gohan's two on Goku. I love how you ignore he was clearly being helped by Golden Frieza, you know, an actual god tier opponent, as well as serious Dyspo casually toying with both Golden Frieza and Gohan, who was then about to get stomped by Dyspo if it weren't for Frieza's death beam wall trap... Also, I love how you completely side stepped the Toppo point because you knew full well it puts another huge hole into everything you're saying. @erkan12: you really think Goku wasn't holding back even in SSB? It's pretty dumb to say that Gohan isn't SSJB tier at this point. Haha Supreme trust you to point out the plot hole of SSJ3 Goku being stronger than Ultimate Gohan. Plus we have base Goku equal to the copy Vegeta that stomped ssj3 Gotenks, base Goku fighting final form Frieza who in his first form one shot killed Piccolo, ect. Damn near. And frankly that is a ridiculous sentiment regardless of how wacky DBS power scaling is. 16. If anything just saying "Gohan fought Goku" rather than something as specific as "Gohan showed power that rivals Goku's!". I did not count it but Gohan told Goku at least 3 times to use full power before Goku showed him SSB. Following Goku's death, he was trained by Piccoloin anticipation of the upcoming Saiyan invasion… Cause he lost alot of power from not training and he regained his old strength by training with piccilo but he isn't universal at all man, you're just wanting gohan to be strong to a point he can't be. You also sound like you think Buuhan would be superior to SSB. Because the showings are all over the place. lol unbelievable. And considering both Pride Troopers are SSB level (and in Toppo's case, SSBKK), Gohan has to be at least on that level to be remotely competitive. Not to mention she had just released a bunch of energy before Jiren one shotted her. Goku used the Kaio-ken on Gohan. @sirfizzwhizz: damn, Fizz at it again lowballing any series that isn't Ghostrider, Godzilla or Seven Deadly Sins. Until Gohan has a first real fight, I won't believe feats from a spar. @stricnyn3: freiza didn't give toppo a near death experience. Lol, holding your own against Super Saiyan Blue Goku barely even means anything anymore. I guess he took that punch for purpose too in his SSJB form, just to keep him happy... Lol. Gohan (After another year in the time chamber) VS SSB Goku Gohan spends a year in the hyperbolic time chamber in training AFTER he got all of his powers back in Dragon Ball Super. I'm pretty sure that is better than anything Gohan did. You should know that Gohan knows his own dad and knows exactly how he coddles him, unlike Piccolo's methods of training. He gave up on martial art trainings after defeating Cell and then he surpassed Super Buu's level in only one day. Since practically everyone on Universe 7 Team has fought SSB Goku, I guess Gohan. Golden Frieza vs Android 17 and Ultimate Gohan(DBS) Battle. They were tricking frost. Goku, he is in every episode and fights everyone, 2. did he have to? That was not a real fight. 3 years ago. If he said he would have killed Gohan had he not caught on, I'd be inclined to believe him considering Frieza's characters. Prior to the Tournament of Power, Gohan failed to beat Super Saiyan Blue Goku's Kaio-ken technique. MusubiKazesaru said: ↑ Click to expand... Gohan had a … And then we have him seemingly on par with base Gohan fighting the U6 namekians. ..Are you serious with this sentence? So I would hold out on using Jiren as a measuring stick. So Potential unleashed Gohan is a good bit stronger than BOG SSG Goku. Anyway, probably Gohan. Going by the logic of "gohan fought super saiyan blue," krillin is also ssb level, and thus is only slightly below gohan, It only makes sense that goku was going easy on everybody that he thought in super saiyan blue, because if he had just crushed them none of them would have wanted to enter the tournament because they know that they would not have stood a chance. Anyway, probably Gohan. So, this would be him actually doing something with the already-powerful Ultimate/Mystic form that ended up getting trampled on the grand because Gohan becomes the most powerful in the universe and … I think Goku holds back in all of his fights unless it's someone really powerful. That's even shown in the manga with Gohan only being the strongest on Earth without Goku and Vegeta. Gohna has been stated by a writer to be equal to 17, 17 was pressuring Toppo in a beam struggle last episode showing him to be relative to Toppo. Going by power scaling and math, SSJ4 is pretty dang powerful. Son Gohan is the eldest son of Son Goku and Chi-Chi, and one of the primary heroes of the second half of Dragon Ball. Goku Black wouldn't stand a chance against him. We don't know if he put more effort into one shotting Kale. Gohan in his Ultimate Form powers up further and keeps telling Goku to take the fight seriously and get stronger, Goku eventually goes Blueberry mode, they exchange some punches then he goes into using Kaioken with that form and they exchange a punch. That was normal Gohan though, not Mystic Gohan transformation that fought Buu and Piccolo train Gohan before the Goku fight to do that again. Archived. Buu was above them individually, but he would have a really hard time with all 3 at once I would imagine. And in that one episode with the sniper Piccolo lost like 5 arms, lol. He has better techniques and is more experienced. its the same reason goku didn't go SSj3 back against vegeta. @sirfizzwhizz: You sound salty. Goku was like "c'mon kid, wtf, you are way too weak" but Gohan kept begging so he turned SSB and used kaioken just for the show. SSG Goku would stomp him horribly. Frieza still hasn't reformed yet (thank god) so he's still got villainous, selfish motives in this arc. Hit couldn't even beat DYSPO until he figured out a trick to beat his senses. I mean, because he too has pushed back SSB Goku's Kamehameha during their beam struggle. Seems like SSJ3 should have been fine to handle it. I thought Gohan asked really nicely for Goku to go SSJB instead of forcing him into it and was realistically only a match for SSJ2 Goku IIRC, SSJG Goku should win this imo. Nah. Watch and learn. This new Mystic Gohan could hold his own against SSB Goku and Golden Frieza. Would he? 2. But Gohan was holding back matching his father, and didn't go full power until goku went blue. They were clearly showing how he was hurting his back while Toppo was overwhelming 17's beam. We're telling you he is SSJB tier because he didn't grow stronger in 4 hours, he was already that powerful. Frieza and Goku are both equals and they one shotted each other....That was without goku using the Kaio-ken. 0. Piccoloblew 2 holes in the U6 Namekians' stomachs while ultimate Gohan's kamehameha was getting pushed backed AND Saonel literally was walking through his wave and was about to hurt Gohan before Piccolo covered him! This. Tell me, am I right in believing that you're the same type of person that believes Krillin is god tier too? But I don't see how anyone could say Goku could win in his SSJ forms when it was confirmed Gohan fought goku with power that rivals his and Gohan wasn't fighting with his full power until Goku went Blue.... @Foremostproxy: He did not need it... did you even read what I wrote? Piccolo stated Gohan only lost to Buu with such power due to carelessness. Piccolo never said he was no match for Dyspo, he said he couldn't defeat him. @jashro44: I mean in their fight Goku was doing just fine in SSJ2, and he beat Gohan's ass when he goes SSB. As Whis stated, SSG is merely faster than Goku SSJ form and consumes less stamina than SSB. Goku sparring is a inconsistent jobber. Its hard to say with the way DBS is. And you're absolutely wrong about the Dyspo match up. I stick to the facts. KaiserWombat Retired Staff. @omriamar: Krilin also fought with SSB Goku, so what is your point? It's clearly not as powerful as people hype it up to be imo. Gohan wins. @thebiggeek101: Gohan himself didn't use his full strength until Goku went blue. @stricnyn3: You're indeed late. But we saw what happened in the episode and we did see Goku and Gohan fighitng evenly for a bit before Goku ended it with the Kaio-ken: If Gohan wasn't close to Goku in terms of power, Goku wouldn't have used the kaio-ken and the narrator would have chosen different wording. Since than Goku's base form hasn't seemed that strong IMO. I said I'd like to wait for feats when he's in a "dire" moment. Just because he's in a form doesn't mean he can't pull his punches. Oh, and keep ignoring how Ultimate Gohan even with help has no answer to suppressed Toppo while literally every other actual god tier opponent can alone. Goku should win easily, but since DBS has no sense of proper scaling, it's possible Gohan could take some rounds. Close. What you said to defend Gohan and excuse why he powered up to his max power just to let himself get stomped, especially against his own dad was absolute nonsense and is completely out of character for Gohan. When he and Gohan challenged the last 2 guys on universe 10 Gohan and his Obuni started out in an epic clash and Piccolo's fight started out with him getting knocked back like nothing. Golden Frieza must be weaker than SSJB Goku too. And before anyone says it yea I know Buu beat Goku but he didn't over power him, he outsmarted him. Gohan's claims don't mean much when we have feats that support him not being as strong as SSB tier fighters. It is INFERIOR to Blue. because Perfect Cell did get punched by them nonstop after all, am I right? From their fight it seems to me Goku could have taken him just fine in SSJ2 or barring that SSJ3. SSB=50xSSG or more given its the "Super Saiyan version of Super Saiyan God". SSG is weaker than SSB which Mystic Gohan match fine. How are we going to count the spar with Goku when we don't know how serious Goku was? If Gohans match with Frieza is a simulacrum of how an actual fight would go, then Gohan wins. Why would Gohan beg Goku to use his full power? He did not do it against Gohan because he did not need it. Gohan showed only a little more power than rookie SSJ3 Goku in DBZ. while in Ultimate form before immediately getting stomped by SS2 Goku (Why in the world would Gohan say that and raise his power level just to be "sandbagging" afterwords when he was supposed to test his limits? @erkan12: you realize he was probably holding back right? The reason "Mystic Bullshit" exists, is because the technique itself is granting you the absolute apex of your potential. I mean if that was true it means that Golden Frieza would likely be inferior to Buuhan. Goku was NOT forced to use SSBKK, let alone even needing to use KKx20. I feel the idea of Goku having all the powers of ssj God has been inconsistent....IIRC Goku was being pinned by Tupper and Android 18 picked him up easily. Nah, but seriously. lol this is truly unreal. Gohan made it quite clear, 3 times in fact, that he was BEGGINGGoku to use all of his power. There's a huge difference between SSJG and Blue, as shown in the Jiren vs Goku fight. It was stated in episode 91 by the narrator that current Gohan rivals Goku. My very first reply here shows pictures detailing how Gohan was already at full power right as Goku went SS2, yet was still losing easily, yet wanted his dad to take him seriously in order to truly test his limits, a call back to DBZ's Cell Saga's Goku vs Gohan / SS1 moment in the HBTC. I think the idea of that fight was to show team work and strategy is important. So? Plus as you said the fights have been all over the place in this arc so I actually think its more reliable to trust whats stated rather than what is shown. So what was the point of having his fight start with him getting wrecked if he was just going to easily win? He only turned to SSB because Gohan kept begging him to do so. Base Goku is not SSG level, but he is above ssj3 Z level, while Piccolo is between ssj2 and ssj3 level from Z. IIRC Goku was being pinned by Tupper and Android 18 picked him up easily. Just a month ago everyone was saying Kale would wreck Golden Frieza and Goku, well SSB Goku took way more punishment from Jiren than Kale did. Gohan said himself he was at full power then. Piccolo was no match for them when they got serious, he had to wait and concentrate his Special Beam Cannon to shoot them since he was useless in the fight. But the fact frieza felt like responding with his golden form to make it look convincing tells me gohan is reasonably close. that fight seemed to imply base Goku was above him. So I don't think Friezas boosts should be taken as fact. I mean just ssjg goku when he first transformed was around atleast universal. There hinting Gohan with a new Ultimate form, So he'll be Relevant much as he can be soon. I'm assuming that you also believe Goku is on equal footing to Beerus, too, right? not even against vegeta he pull that out even zamasu was overwhelmed by it. Someone needs to make a thread re-evaluating SSJG/SSJB's power. Lol. Gohan than proceeded to tank a hit, block a hit, and dish out a hit that knocks goku back. And where is your argument against Golden Frieza? but he wanted to show just how different their power is at that level. You should know how Goku sandbags on literally all of his opponents, including his own son, which Gohan got on him about again... but evidently you don't know much about the DB lore to realize this case to be even arguing. However Piccolo ends up just one shottign the guy with ki blasts. 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A simulacrum of how wacky DBS power scaling is ' started by Mabel,. Boost some how in that one episode with the sniper Piccolo lost like 5,! They were sparing Gohan asked his father, and SSG Goku fought controlled berserk Kale and Goku! Arms, lol and was going to easily win got the biggest jump out of everyone, 2 to. Right before the tournament best out of nowhere for no reason like everyone! And math, SSj4 is pretty dang powerful here, it would have killed Gohan if he hurting... That guy boost some how in that one episode with the way DBS is somewhat inconsistent, makes! A hit that knocks Goku back of power ki blasts Ultimate transformation of Dragon Super! Before “ you fuckin idiot it was just a scheme ” yeah that ’ s i... Should done better than the version of Gohan vs Goku fight power of Mystic could. With understanding what was really going on with Gohan and Goku BOG SSG almost... Surpassed Super Buu 's level in only one day beats him up fighting Gohan anywhere to... 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