It's not like there are all that many compelling applications on iOS that people are screaming for on the Mac. Press question mark to learn the rest of the keyboard shortcuts. It's been technically possible for them to introduce an ARM-based Mac since at least 2010, back when the iPad first shipped with a CPU nearly as fast as a low-end Mac. However, if there isn't x86 emulation, as Gruber speculates: yikes. That's why you can run the same version of Windows / Linux on them without any problem. Apple has formally announced that its Mac computers will be transitioning from Intel x86 to 'Apple Silicon' over the next two years or so. Wine, VMs, and docker come to mind. Worry about that in the next 3-5 years when you’re building another machine most likely. This keeps coming up on the sub and I think my Luddite view of things is any hackintosh you build today will probably be long in the tooth when ARM is mainstream. Remember 2005-2006 with the Intel transition? Emulating x86 or x64 on ARM would plug those gaps, of course. I use Mac for FCPX. My bet is Macs with BOTH Intel and ARM chips fitted. There are millions of Macs out there running x86 macOS and applications, many in critical roles where they can't be replaced overnight. But what if there were sudden gaps in the available Mac software catalog, and an easy way for the most-active third-part Apple developers to swoop in and fill them? Or if they were waiting for their home-grown CPUs to be faster than their mainstay Macs, we passed that point a couple of years ago. I mentioned this before in other threads, but it's become very clear to me that Apple would not announce this transition unless they thought they didn't need emulation for these Macs to succeed.They might be wrong about that, but it's what they believe. If Apple would release the first ARM Mac in 2020 I think it’s realistic that by 2025 all new Macs will be moved over but the Intel ones will still be supported by macOS. (Microsoft), New comments cannot be posted and votes cannot be cast. Apple has finally introduced its first Macs with its Apple-designed Arm CPUs: a 13-inch MacBook Air, a 13-inch MacBook Pro, and a Mac mini. Looks like you're using new Reddit on an old browser. In 2005, Steve Jobs announced that Apple would transition Macs to use PC-standard Intel x86 processors. That blows my mind. If there is no x86 emulation, we'll just be forced to go to a Windows computer. Not only is the foundation established, the whole mac market is shifting towards that direction. Enjoy the ride! It will force developers to quickly port their apps to ARM. Sounds like a good reason not to buy a Mac. Apple: Our New ARM-Based Macs Offer Epic CPU Performance and Battery Life. My thinking is you can expect that for those iMacs last year, and really processors now can surely run longer than that but let’s assume Apple decides they’re not doing updates past 8 years. I'd have to check). By using our Services or clicking I agree, you agree to our use of cookies. Cookies help us deliver our Services. And over time they just reduce Intel support in MacOS as the ARM transition happens. Porting Mac software from 32-bit to 64-bit is the hardest part of converting from x86 to ARM64. And then there's Catalyst (running iOS applications on MacOS). So long as macOS developers move over to Swift or whatever it should be relatively easy to transition CPUs. Such an announcement was … But really, why bother? so to be clear: you would need a completely custom kernel that can handle system calls correctly in a x86 processor. I had Adobe Creative Suite 2 back in the day and stayed on Snow Leopard for the rest of that MacBook's life as a result (either Lion was shit, or just ran like a dog on that machine anyway). but the latter two aren't the same as the full-blown desktop tool. We’re going to discuss his entry into the IT field, which might knock loose the cobwebs for so… When Apple introduces ARM processors on the Mac line, it will be a long and gradual transition. New comments cannot be posted and votes cannot be cast. Part of me says “of course they’ll have emulation, how couldn’t they!”, but then I remember: It’s Apple, so who knows. It will be interesting to see how Fidelity Investments reacts to Apple's Mac platform transition to custom ARM silicon. That solves both the legacy operation and development problems, then it is just a software management issue. Then again, for Apple to make the switch they don’t have to care about Windows. It’s a tool that will make Apple’s transition period easier, but Apple certainly intends for its developers to get started on native ARM ports of their x86 apps sooner rather than later. Apple at WWDC 2020 announced plans to transition away from Intel chips to Macs built with its own Apple Silicon chips starting in late 2020. If they’re compatible with 10.16 that means 8 years of OS updates. The Apple of 2020 is gigantic compared to the Apple of 2006. Plenty of rumours which is why people are taking it seriously, but as far as I know Apple … Doubtless Apple has something to lure in the susceptible "creatives.". I moved away from Mac to Windows for work reasons, but was actually contemplating shifting back to the new 16" MBP, with my Windows needs met by emulation. And that would suck! Mac Pro has been released just recently, and if they eventually release new iMac on this WWDC, you think they are gonna kill Intel support anytime soon? Yeah that lack of x86 emulation is ringing real alarm bells here. Yes, I get that recompiling for ARM might not be that difficult, but this assumes that all software I use is in active development. Apple announced their transition to Apple Silicon during WWDC 2020 and they aim to … I’ve been thinking about this since the ARM rumors started. For Apple it is not about the technology and its not about security, its about the profit margins derived from using in-house hardware which could be iPhone level. Or just as likely; you spent big money for a expensive but critical software that is now years out of date, but still worked just fine. But just because two CPUs are ARM doesn't mean they are compatible. Report: Apple's Plans for ARM-Based Macs Could Be Announced at WWDC. It's not quite as easy as "just recompile it". Longtime Apple users have been through all this before, with the transition from PowerPC to Intel and now for Intel x86 to ARM. Apple Inc. is preparing to announce a shift to its own main processors in Mac computers, replacing chips from Intel Corp., as early as this month at its annual developer conference, according to people familiar with the … Portal 2 can't be played anymore. Apple has laid down all the groundwork for transitions, and it’s prepared for the entire platform from hardware to software to move forward. An unofficial community to discuss Apple devices and software, including news, rumors, opinions and analysis pertaining to the company located at One Apple Park Way. It wouldn't surprise me if MAS apps were made compatible via their bitcode virtual machine thingy and non-MAS apps needed more work. The Apple refresh cycle for laptops and desktops is so lame that blaming the Apple product cycle on Intel shortages is as laughable as anything that comes out of the White House. By forcing Mac developers to do the 64-bit port ahead of time, they've drastically reduced the effort needed to support ARM64 Macs. And that's why we've never seen a Raspberry Pi running iOS / tvOS. ‎Thank you for joining us for another great episode of the Back From the Future Show. mmh that's not how it works. AMD and Intel CPUs are compatible. Long, long time before any support will end. by comparison, the differences between architectures are trivial. More likely we will see the lower end, popular laptops go ARM first, those where people use mostly Apple's own apps (which will of course be ported first). The 32- to 64-bit transition wasn't so bad for me, but for those apps that no longer worked on Catalina, it wasn't so much because the developers couldn't figure out how to make it work, but rather there was no developer there to even look. It'd be a very Apple thing to do: Yeah, sure, if you'd been on the MAS for the past few years you wouldn't have been able to make your product work or you would have gone out of business due to our enormous tithe, but if you were you don't have to do anything to run on new devices. Yeah, if there is no x86 emulation, I was hoping Catalina was the shot across the bow for what would be supported, then an ARM Mac is a no go for me and I assume many others. Apple can afford to subsidise the cost of the ARM chips in the machines, especially as they are so much cheaper than Intel. Anybody who is going to keep supporting their Mac software is on-board, or their customers are already looking for a replacement. It is not clear whether complex intensive computing processes like rendering video or working with very large high bit color images can be programmed to run on ARM as efficiently as on X86 but users pay exorbitant prices right now to run FCP on Apple hardware built with sup-optimal choices. It’s an interview with a friend of the podcast, Caleb Jones. Apple’s upcoming "One More Thing" event will see the first Arm-based Macs built on Apple’s in-house-designed silicon CPUs and GPUs. Links or it didn't happen. Developers are likely to have many of them, as Apple tries to bring them up to speed with what has turned out to be a much swifter transition to Arm than many had predicted. Press J to jump to the feed. If Microsoft and Adobe are on-board (and they are, even if they don't know it yet), and an army of iOS indie developers ready to swoop in to plug any holes, the performance and battery life costs of emulation seems like a huge loss. Then you have some applications that were only released for Intel computers, like Google Chrome in 2008, games like World of Warcraft who dropped PPC support in 2010 and Microsoft Office, who released its first only Intel version in 2010. I mean, I've never seen anyone running iOS or tvOS in anything but Apple hardware. And now, Apple is potentially poised to bring those same benefits to its new ARM Macs. It’s the biggest shift in the history of Apple’s computers. Something to look forward to: Apple's first custom ARM-based silicon for Macs isn't here yet, but it increasingly looks like it will come with a bang. Or more to the point, why didn't Mojave go 64-bit only, after a year of warning users that they were going to do so? It already amazes me what people will put up with to be able to say they're doing it on an iPad. Some major developers (Adobe and Microsoft) didn't finally update their apps until well into 2007 (Adobe) or 2008! There are millions of Macs out there running x86 macOS and applications, many in critical roles where they can't be replaced overnight. Apple’s ARM Transition Could Begin With The 12-inch MacBook By Tyler Lee , on 06/12/2020 16:56 PDT A rumor from earlier this week suggested that come WWDC 2020, Apple will announce their ARM chips which is part of the company’s plan to eventually move away from Intel and transition fully into custom chipsets. The problem with arm is the instruction set. Apple's CPU and other ARM CPUs are not compatible at all. As a disclaimer, the benchmark scores uploaded on Geekbench come from Apple’s Mac transition kits that a few developers purchased to assist in their move from Intel to ARM CPUs. If I’m a developer and I use a bunch of third party frameworks in my app and just one of those frameworks drags their heels - or has quit active development and never updates- then I have to rework that part of my app to be able to recompile it. The dawn of Apple’s switch of macOS to run on Arm processors is finally almost here, at least if the leaks are correct, and I’m hoping it gives one misunderstood Mac product another cha… So, why aren't there ARM Macs already? Apple plans to announce ARM transition for all Macs at WWDC 2020 Report claims internal Apple testing has seen “sizable improvements” over Intel. The state of programming for ARM is fine for what the vast majority of people do on a computer at work or at home, think iPad with a mouse/menu interface. You’re looking at this the wrong way it isn't someone versus something, or anyone trying to beat Apple, this is not Apple trying to stop Hackintoshes, and if you think it is you are way misinformed and ignorant (please don't take this badly), it's just a different CPU architecture, it's not a form of security, and their security chip as a previous comment posted has nothing to do with being able to run a Hackintosh. I know Apple fanboys will support Apple no matter what, but if you just dropped 6 grand on a new Mac Pro, would you be AT ALL ok with it being completely obsolete within a year or two? The transition was announced in 2005 and the first non PPC compatible Mac OS X version was Snow Leopard, released in 2009. Not having emulation will mean devs will need to recompile. Apple has already shown time and time again that they're willing to sacrifice compatibility in the name of innovation. Lots of fiddly little details to change, subtle bugs to chase down, etc. Naturally, one can accomplish many tasks using a web browser or the mobile apps (iOS, Android), etc. that's going to be a huge issue for a lot of us that uses vmware or parallels. Apple's custom chips are Arm-based and are similar to the A-series chips used in iPhones and iPads, and Apple unveiled the first Apple … Why did Catalina remove support for 32-bit apps? If you work in a web based app you can work in ARM. That means developers are more likely to follow along with the transition to ARM — but it also means that there are just more developers. x86 emulation would be a crutch for developers to use as an excuse to not update their apps for ARM. Microsoft already has Office running just fine on an ARM port of Windows. All the big platform transition hits are coming back. Apple's move from Intel x86 to ARM chips will probably allow Intel-based Macs about five years of support before they are abandoned. A subreddit dedicated to running macOS on non official Apple hardware. Press question mark to learn the rest of the keyboard shortcuts. They might be wrong about that, but it's what they believe. Like, say, if you switched architectures, and some specialized apps got "left behind"? It's time for another chipset transition for the Mac, this time from Intel to ARM. Anyway so I’m not concerned about this ARM thing at all. You mean 4/5 years. 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